Cup of Rogan: Cody Tucker's History Benders & Tech Terrors
Joe kicks back with Cody Tucker, a podcaster who turns history into raw, weird storytelling. From AI ethics and spider-silk skin to KKK authors and CIA music scenes, this one's a ride through the strange and the deeply human.
📄 Briefing Document: Briefing Document: Joe Rogan Experience #2317 - Cody Tucker
Date: May 24, 2024
Guest: Cody Tucker
Host: Joe Rogan
Source: Joe Rogan Experience #2317 - Cody Tucker
Introduction
This episode of the Joe Rogan Experience features Cody Tucker, a podcaster and author. The conversation covers a wide range of topics, including the origins of podcasting, the surprising and controversial background of the author of 'The Outlaw Josey Wales,' the prolific and multifaceted career of Stephen King, the potential dangers and ethical considerations of AI and advanced technology, the complexities of Uber's terms of service and the future of transportation, unsettling discoveries in genetic engineering and ancient history, bizarre historical figures and practices, and the importance of diverse human perspectives.
The Evolution of Podcasting and Independent Content Creation
The conversation highlights the organic beginnings of the Joe Rogan Experience, starting as casual live streams from comedy club green rooms on platforms like Justin.tv (now Twitch). Early pioneers like Tom Green and Anthony Cumia are mentioned as inspirations for their independent online shows. The show's growth is attributed 100% to word-of-mouth, with Rogan emphasizing his lack of advertising. This contrasts with the modern pressure for young creators to prioritize fame at any cost (e.g., TikTok, OnlyFans). Tucker's podcast evolved from rambling segments into focused historical clips, showcasing how content can adapt and find its audience.
Unsettling Truths Behind Popular Culture
A significant portion of the discussion focuses on the revelation that Asa Carter, the author of the book that inspired the movie 'The Outlaw Josey Wales,' was a notorious white supremacist and KKK member who left the KKK because he felt they weren't racist enough. He was also a speechwriter for segregationist governor George Wallace. This fact is presented as a shocking and disturbing truth that makes it difficult to view the popular film in the same light. This leads into a discussion about how such controversial figures could operate relatively unknown in the past, particularly before widespread internet access, referencing Stephen King's use of pseudonyms like Richard Bachman.
The Prolific and Mysterious Nature of Stephen King
Stephen King's immense output and use of pseudonyms (Richard Bachman, Thad Beaumont in 'The Dark Half') are discussed. The conversation touches on how King's life and experiences, such as his struggles with addiction ('The Shining'), often inform his writing about writers in Maine. Kubrick's adaptation of 'The Shining' is mentioned, noting King's dislike of it despite its critical acclaim.
Reflections on Loss and Public Figures
Rogan and Tucker share reflections on the deaths of public figures who impacted them emotionally, including Robin Williams (specifically praising his dramatic performance in 'One Hour Photo'), Heath Ledger, Steve Irwin, and Chadwick Boseman. The discussion highlights the tragic irony of Boseman battling cancer while filming and facing public scrutiny for his appearance, as well as Norm Macdonald's private battle with cancer.
Smoking, Addiction, and the Nicotine Debate
Tucker discusses his own struggle with smoking, despite knowing the health risks. A common justification for smoking (looking 'cool,' not caring about health) is explored. The nature of nicotine is debated, with the idea that while addictive, it might have neuroprotective qualities, and the primary danger comes from the delivery method (burning tobacco) and added chemicals in cigarettes designed to increase addiction. The movie 'The Insider' is referenced in the context of tobacco companies knowingly making cigarettes more addictive.
Corporate Practices and Lack of Accountability
Uber's terms of service are dissected, highlighting the binding arbitration clause that prevents users from participating in class-action lawsuits and limits Uber's liability by classifying drivers as independent contractors. The fact that Uber's terms of service are governed by the laws of the Netherlands, excluding conflicts of laws rules, is seen as a 'sneaky' way to avoid legal accountability in other jurisdictions. This leads to a discussion about the potential safety concerns when drivers are not fully vetted employees.
The Rise of AI and its Implications
The increasing prevalence and capabilities of AI are noted, with Rogan and Tucker expressing both fascination and concern. Examples like using AI chat bots (Grock, ChatGPT) to explain complex legal clauses are shown. The unsettling possibility of AI being used to create fake online personas for studies or manipulation is discussed, highlighting the difficulty of conducting ethical studies with human subjects who know they are being observed. The 'AI war' is mentioned as something happening subtly but with significant potential impact.
Transhumanism and Genetic Modification Concerns
The possibility of electronic implants or wearables leading to mind-reading capabilities in their lifetime is viewed as a scary potential consequence of technological advancement. Discoveries and experiments in genetic engineering are discussed with apprehension, including the integration of tardigrade DNA into human cells (aiming for radiation immunity, potentially creating 'super people' or 'X-Men') and attempts to create bulletproof human skin using spider silk. The idea of China already conducting genetic experiments on babies (HIV inoculation, intelligence increase) is raised as a disturbing example of this technology in practice.
Ancient History, Myth, and Unexplained Phenomena
The conversation delves into historical theories and unexplained phenomena, including the MK Ultra program and its potential connection to the Manson family. The vastness and complexity of the CIA's activities are described as a 'labyrinth.' The theory that the Laurel Canyon music scene had ties to intelligence agencies is explored. Ancient exploration and potentially undiscovered civilizations are discussed, such as the Vikings arriving in North America before Columbus, theories of Phoenician or Egyptian contact with South America, and the Lost City of Z in the Amazon. The rapid disappearance of structures in the Amazon jungle due to environmental factors is noted.
Bizarre Historical Practices and Figures
Disturbing historical medical practices are discussed, including 'tobacco smoke enemas' used for resuscitation. The story of General Butt Naked, a Liberian warlord who engaged in ritualistic cannibalism (eating children's hearts for invincibility) and later became an evangelist, is recounted as an example of extreme human behavior and lack of accountability for atrocities. The movie 'Machine Gun Preacher' is recommended as a depiction of the dangers in parts of the world. The disturbing historical figure William Buckland, a scientist with an ambition to eat an example of every animal in existence (including a porpoise, a puppy, and the heart of King Louis XIV preserved in formaldehyde), is discussed.
Challenging Conventional Wisdom and Skepticism
The discussion highlights the importance of questioning information and being aware of potential biases, whether from corporations (Uber's terms, tobacco companies) or even seemingly reliable sources. Skepticism towards the widespread diagnosis and medication of ADHD in children is expressed, suggesting it may be a response to a rigid societal structure rather than an inherent disorder. The Flat Earth conspiracy is discussed as an example of suggestibility and a potential 'experiment' in how easily people can be influenced, while acknowledging that some skepticism about certain scientific claims (like specific dinosaur reconstructions) is understandable. The potential presence of microplastics in the human body is discussed as a modern health concern, illustrating the challenges of proving the long-term effects of widespread environmental contaminants.
The Nature of Reality and Consciousness
The simulation theory is briefly touched upon, linking it to the timing of events and the increasing complexity of AI. The idea that consciousness may play a role in the creation or perception of reality ('Tom Campbell's My Big Toe') is mentioned as a complex and thought-provoking concept.
The Importance of Diverse Human Experience
Despite the focus on strange and disturbing historical events and figures, the conversation concludes by celebrating the vast diversity of human nature and experience, from those who push physical limits (ultra-runners) to those with bizarre obsessions (eating every animal).
Listen to the full episode on Spotify or your preferred platform for more insights into history, technology, and the human condition.
Top Sips
"This thing got where it is 100% word of mouth."
- Rogan on how JRE rose with zero ads — just vibes and virality.
"He was in the KKK and then left the KKK because they weren't racist enough."
- Asa Carter's dark legacy behind a beloved Western.
"We're going to be really vulnerable to any sort of electronic bridge that lets you legitimately read minds."
- AI isn't just bots — it's brain taps in the making.
The Blend
- Podcasting's DIY roots get their flowers. Cody and Joe reflect on bypassing gatekeepers to go full indie — before it was cool.
- Stephen King's many faces (Richard Bachman, Thad Beaumont) show how the line between fiction and self gets blurred — especially when writing from addiction.
- AI chatbots can now decode legal jargon better than lawyers. That's cool and terrifying.
- Uber's sneaky terms of service — governed by Dutch law, not yours — spark debate on how Big Tech dodges accountability.
- From human-spider silk to tardigrade DNA, biohacking is pushing toward real-life X-Men — but at what cost?
Bitter Notes
- Asa Carter's hidden past flips The Outlaw Josey Wales from cowboy icon to cautionary tale.
- General Butt Naked — a warlord who ate children's hearts for 'protection' — now walks free and preaches.
- The CIA's fingerprints may be all over 60s music scenes like Laurel Canyon — spooky, if true.
- Microplastics may already be in us. Long-term effects? Still guessing.
Extra Shot
- Nicotine: addictive, yes — but maybe also neuroprotective?
- Robin Williams in 'One Hour Photo' gets serious praise for creeping us out brilliantly.
- Smoking is still cool... until you can't breathe.
- Stephen King hated Kubrick's take on 'The Shining' — despite it being a classic.
Sip On This
- Check out Cody Tucker's podcast for deep, chaotic dives into forgotten history.
- Watch 'The Insider' for a chilling look at tobacco industry manipulation.
- Book rec: 'Tom Campbell's My Big TOE' — simulation theory turned philosophical espresso shot.